COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER I d like to welcome all of you to Massillon City Council for Tuesday, January 20, 2009. We have in attendance with us this evening: Mayor Francis Cicchinelli, Auditor Jayne Ferrero, Fire Chief Tom Burgasser, Engineer Keith Dylewski and the Law Director Perry Stergios. On the wall to your left are agendas for anyone who wishes to follow the meeting. Also under item #5 on the agenda is where the public can speak on any item that appears on the agenda and then under item #17 is where the public can speak on any item that does not appear on the agenda. I d also like to remind anyone with a cell phone please turn it off or turn it very far down.


Roll call for the evening found the following Council Members present: Kathy Catazaro-Perry, Dave Hersher, Chuck Maier, Ron Mang, Paul Manson, Dave McCune, Donnie Peters, Larry Slagle and Tony Townsend.

Thus giving a roll call vote of 9 present.


COUNCILMAN TOWNSEND – Gave the invocation for the evening.


COUNCILMAN TOWNSEND – Chairman of the Parks and Rec. Committee led those in attendance in the Pledge of Allegiance.


COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Madame Clerk, are the minutes of the previous meeting transcribed and open for public viewing? (Yes, they are) Are there any additions or corrections to the minutes? If not the minutes stand approved as written.




Authorizing the Mayor of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to enter into a contract with Stark County Regional Planning Commission for Housing Rehabilitation Services in the City of Massillon, Ohio, and declaring an emergency.

COUNCILMAN MANG – Yes, to enter into an agreement with the Regional Planning is something the city’s been doing for a number of years. At our work session you’ll recall that Aane Aaby stressed the importance of belonging to the Stark County Regional Planning Commission due to the fact the amount of work they are able to do for us which in turns gives us more free time and to direct it right to the people who need the services.

COUNCILMAN MANG moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman McCune.

The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes.



Authorizing and directing the Mayor and the Director of Public Service and Safety of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to enter into the Composting Grant Agreement with the Stark-Tuscarawas-Wayne Joint Solid Waste Management District, and declaring an emergency.

COUNCILMAN HERSHER – We spoke about at this ordinance and the one that follows Ordinance No. 5 at the work session. Both deal with the recycling and composting or leaf pick up programs in the city. The safety service director and I as recently as this afternoon had conversations because there are still questions about how the recycling program is going to continue what’s its going to look at, how it’s going to be funded. I know there has been some dialogue opened with the district. I would like because we still want to ensure that the leaf pick up program continues and we still want to these are basically grants money being given to us by the district. I would like unless there’s you know strenuous objections from the rest of council I would like to go ahead and pass these tonight so that we’re not leaving taking any chance of leaving any free money on the table as we continue to work on these programs. So at this point I guess without any questions or without any objections I’d like to pass them this evening.

COUNCILMAN HERSHER moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Slagle.

The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes.



Authorizing and directing the Mayor and the Director of Public Service and Safety of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to enter into the Recycling Program Grant Agreement with the Stark-Tuscarawas-Wayne Joint Solid Waste Management District, and declaring an emergency.

COUNCILMAN HERSHER – This goes along with Ordinance No. 4 that we just passed. So again any questions or objections I will get them answered otherwise I plan on moving for suspension.

COUNCILMAN HERSHER moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Manson.

The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes.



Amending CHAPTER 311 “STREET OBSTRUCTIONS AND SPECIAL USES” of the Codified Ordinances of the City of Massillon, by repealing existing paragraph (a) of Section 311.01 “PLACING INJUROUS MATERIAL OR OBSTRUCTION IN STREET” and enacting a anew paragraph (a) of Section 311.01 “PLACING INJUROUS MATERIAL OR OBSTRUCTION IN STREET” of CHAPTER 311, and declaring emergency.

COUNCILMAN SLAGLE – This was discussed this at the work session and Mr. Loudiana indicated that the reason for this was that we needed to cut down on the material that’s going into our sewer system. It really only adds four words to the present ordinance 311.01(a) of the City of Massillon and those four words are grass, leaves, branches and twigs. In all honesty it was probably already covered by the or other articles of the statute already. But Director Loudiana felt that this was necessary just to give them a little bit more control of what’s getting into our sewer system because everything that gets in has to be taken out. There’s not really a particular emergency situation but if we have no questions on it, it has been discussed I would ask that we waive the requirement of three separate readings and pass it tonight as an emergency legislation.

COUNCILMAN SLAGLE moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Maier.

The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes.



Authorizing the Director of Public Service and Safety of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to advertise for and receive sealed bids, and enter into a contract, upon award and approval of the Board of Control, with the lowest and best bidder, for the rental of 114 golf carts for The Legends of Massillon, and declaring an emergency.

COUNCILMAN TOWNSEND – We discussed this at the last work session. The passage of this ordinance will just allow the city to receive bids for 114 golf carts. That number is up compared to last year which last year was 104 so this year we’re up by 10.

COUNCILMAN TOWNSEND moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Maier.

The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes.



Authorizing the Director of Law of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to renew a one year contract with the Stark County Public Defender’s Office, for the purpose of providing representation for indigent defendants, and declaring an emergency.

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY – Tonight Ordinance No. 8 is to allow the public defender to represent indigent offenders at a flat rate of $195.00 per case. In the past they used private counsel so they’re looking to save some dollars by doing this. The contract will run from January 1, 2009 till the end of the calendar year. The funds will be coming from the municipal court funds to pay for the public defender.

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Peters.

The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes.



Authorizing the Director of Public Service and Safety of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to submit an application for 2009 Municipal Road Funds for the Wales Rd (SR 241) Resurfacing and 32nd Street Bridge Replacement, and declaring an emergency.

COUNCILMAN PETERS – It is just that to authorize the Director of Public Service and Safety to submit the application for the 2009 municipal road funds for Wales Rd Resurfacing and 32nd Street Bridge and declaring an emergency. There weren’t any questions for the engineer at our work session so I’m going to move for passage.

COUNCILMAN PETERS moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Townsend.

The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes.



Making certain appropriations from the unappropriated balance of the Museum Fund, WWTP Upgrade Fund and the CDBG Program Fund, for the year ending December 31, 2009, and declaring an emergency.

COUNCILMAN MANSON Yes, we have three parts in this ordinance. Section 1, deals with the museum fund and please appropriate from the unappropriated balance $275,598.00 to an account entitled Massillon Museum holding and $8,000.00 to an account entitled election expenses. As everybody knows these are the museum funds. These are just cared for by the City of Massillon so we just have to put them in the funds so they can spend them. Section 2, hereby is appropriated from the unappropriated balance of the wastewater treatment upgrade fund for the year ending December 31, 2009; $52,305.00 this was $52,000.00 we agreed to pay to CTI and we had to apply for I guess to extend the loan or increase the loan that we had for them that should have gone directly to them, but it came to us. So we’re just moving this money on. The last one is $16,000.00 for CDBG this time I’m requesting the appropriation of funds from the year 2008 CDGB program budget for the following activities from the community development block grant program fund $16,000.00 to an account entitled demolitions. The amount has been requested for the appropriations at this time is the current balance of the fund remaining for the year 2008 for the demolition program.

COUNCILMAN MANSON moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Hersher.

The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes.



Reducing the appropriation in the Parks & Rec. Capital Fund, for the year ending December 31, 2009, and declaring an emergency.

COUNCILMAN MANSON Yes, as we discussed these last Monday because due to the change in the split for the parks and recreation because we are putting $350,000.00 debt payment into the general fund we changed the split at an earlier council meeting. I believe it was at the last council meeting so these have to be removed. So that’s all we’re doing we’re just removing those two lines.

COUNCILMAN MANSON moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Hersher.

The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes.



Authorizing the Mayor of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to accept the FEMA AFG Grant for the hazardous materials technician training for the Massillon Fire Department, and declaring an emergency.

COUNCILMAN MANSON Yes, I’ll just read the fire chief’s explanation here. This legislation is requested to accept AFG FEMA Grant to establish funding to send up to nine employees three from each shift to hazardous materials technical training to place them on the Stark County Hazardous Materials Team. This serves dual purpose to begin to meet to with I feel is our obligation to a countywide hazardous materials response system is signed by Chief Mathews in 1987 and to have trained qualified response people on staff in the event of a hazardous materials incident occurs within our city limits. The cost of the overtime generated to complete this 40 hour course is $15,496.00 that should be appropriated with exceptions. However the grant reimburses all but 10% of the cost with the total cost to the city of $1,550.00. Making it simple we get $15,496.00 reimburse we have to put up $1,550.00. If there’s any questions we have the fire chief here that he can discuss it.

COUNCILMAN MANSON moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilwoman Catazaro-Perry.

The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes.



Authorizing the Mayor of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to accept the FEMA AFG Grant for the regional swift water rescue training for the Massillon Fire Department, and declaring an emergency.

COUNCILMAN MANSON Yes, I’ll just read the fire chief’s request here. This legislation request is to accept an AFG FEMA grant to establish the City of Massillon as the host agency where comprehensive regional swift water rescue grant that would allow for quick response and back up along the entire Tuscarawas River corridor in Stark County. It will also allow for much needed training to fasciculate rescue of victims instead of recovery. The grant is written for $123,182.00 that should be appropriated with acceptance. However, the grant reimburses all but 20% of the associated cost. Additionally, all of the recognized participants Lawrence Township, Canal Fulton, Jackson Township, Perry Township, Navarre and Bethlehem Township have agreed to contribute their portion of the 20% expended to train their personnel. Total cost to the city is $8,275.00; so if this whole if we would have had to put up 20% of this whole grant we would have had something more than $24,000.00 because of the participation of the other people $8,275.00 is our responsibility.

COUNCILMAN MANSON moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Hersher.

The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes.


Urging the Planning Commission to consider rezoning the Columbia Heights neighborhood.

COUNCILMAN MANG As most of you know there was a public hearing held I believe it was held at the Boys Club back on December 8th with the residents of Columbia Heights to discuss the possibility of the zone changes in the neighborhood. Presently the neighborhood is quite a mixture of I-1 light industrial along with residential, business and industrial uses plus a number of vacant lots. The results of those meeting or that meeting was very positive. The residents and the property owners seem to support the zone changes and are looking forward to the next step by council. The next step by council is Resolution No. 1 where we’re asking the planning commission to consider rezoning the Columbia Heights neighborhood. After that has been done then their decision will come back to city council for it to be agreed to or amended to or whatever. But it will come back to city council. So with that in mind and I know they’ve been waiting some time to get this thing going I would like to see that the rules requiring three separate readings be suspended and Resolution No. 1 – 2009 be brought forward for its passage.

COUNCILMAN MANG moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman McCune.

The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes.





A. COPECO - $511.50
B. REPOSITORY - $241.57
C. WALTER DRANE - $360.00
D. KELLER - $31.78

COUNCILMAN MANSON I move that we pay the bills, seconded by Councilwoman Catazaro-Perry.

Roll call vote 9 yes to pay the bills.



COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Thank you, we will accept all of those reports and file them appropriately. We do need to act on the Mayor’s appointments items f & g. Mr. Mang, as pro-tem may I ask for you to handle this?

COUNCILMAN MANG You have received the packet from the Mayor listing the members that he wishes to assign to various boards and commissions. There before us tonight asking for us to pass it and so I’m asking council to read the list and if there’s a problem we have the mayor here I’m here at your wishes. We have a request from the mayor to approve his commission and that is before us.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER We’re talking about item “f” at this point individually; is that correct? (Yes) Alright, are there any questions or comments?

COUNCILMAN PETERS – I would like to make a request to council that we vote on the appointments separately by each board or commission. Several reasons, #1, I don’t know about the rest of you I just received this when I walked in here this evening. Maybe I’m the only one correct me but I don’t know I mean and #2 I’ve had some phone calls on some different commissions and different things and its not that I’m disagreeing with the mayor on his appointments. These are his choices I just you know I remember I bring this up from last year I remember when Councilman Slagle and I’m not putting you in the hot seat Mr. Slagle. There was one committee or one board that Mr. Slagle didn’t agree with so he voted no for all of the appointments. I don’t think that sends the right message to all the other people on these boards because then they get to thinking I wonder what Mr. Slagle don’t like about me maybe he don’t want me on this board or that board. I think they should be voted on separate and I’m putting it before council to make that decision also.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Alright, at the appropriate time after more discussion may I suggest rather than voting on each one individually if there is one, two or three that you would like to break out I would entertain a motion to vote on that individual or those individual separately and then accept the rest of the list as given. Do you follow me?

COUNCILMAN PETERS – Yeah, I’m not a total imbecile but what I’m also saying okay say I don’t agree with the park & rec.’s decision and say Mr. McCune don’t agree with the tax incentive review board and Mr. Townsend don’t agree with the zoning board and Mr. Slagle don’t agree with the civil service commission which I think that’s one he disagreed on last year. I mean I might be wrong but I mean we could end up voting on all of them anyways. So I’m leaving that up to council it’s not my decision I’m just putting this out there.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Somebody has to make a motion to do that. Right now we’re considering a list in its entirety to do anything different it takes a motion from someone on council. What I’m suggesting is if you have one individual make your motion. If anyone else has another board or commission they would like to separate out we’ll vote on that and then take whatever is left. Do you follow what I’m saying?

COUNCILMAN PETERS – Right, but you’re going to let the rest of council discuss this first, okay.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Oh absolutely if we only get one motion fine if we get six, we get six. Mr. Manson?

COUNCILMAN MANSON – I’m not disagreeing with Mr. Peters at all. I don’t know how we’d have to go through each one of these for a roll call vote. I don’t know if all of that is necessary, but like he said he just saw this and some things have happened that we weren’t aware of when we talked about this a little bit before. I’d really like to take the whole list back to committee Monday and go through it and see if there are any maybe certain names we have we would like to separate or something at least discuss how we would like to handle it is what I would like to do.

COUNCILMAN SLAGLE – Well, I sympathize with both Councilman Peters and Councilman Manson’s concerns on this I think we ought to call on the law director to tell us whether or not if that’s even appropriate.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Well as far as separating out its definitely appropriate there’s no problem doing that, that’s an acceptable motion. I planned to call the law director up to ask if any of these people had legal status pending if we took another week or two to approve them if that would affect the boards they were on. But as far as breaking out a name absolutely; it just takes a motion from council. Are there any other questions? Mr. Stergios?

LAW DIRECTOR STERGIOS – Well anticipating this debate here today we spent most of the afternoon working on this issue and I guess the one thing I would say first is I don’t any reason since there are some issues with seeing the list and some of you seeing it for the first time table it till the next meeting and discuss it at committee. I don’t see any harm in that and that will also give me time to put in writing what I’m going to summarize for you right now is that basically even though historically this list has come to council for approval legally nothing in our rules, ordinances or the revised code require that council approve any of these appointments including the park and rec. board appointment, civil service commission, the planning commission, the board of building appeals, the records commission, I think the senior citizen commission was merged but I started making a list and going through the revised code today. I know the hot topic is the park and rec. board but our ordinance that we enacted back in 1995 differs from the revised code in that it says “our ordinance says the mayor makes the appointment of three people. “ It doesn’t say subject to council approval. Again, historically I think they brought this list to you and everybody has quote approved it but it might be an exercise in utility when it’s not even required. But I would like to put that in writing I did not have the opportunity to do that today and I think the logical thing since there’s some debate about it would be to table it until the next meeting. We’ll discuss it at committee but that’s up to you.

COUNCILMAN MANSON I’d like to make that motion to table it one meeting and clarify these things.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER We do have a motion and we need a second I was going to suggest that we wait till all the discussion is in before we make motion. But we do have a motion on the floor we need a second or it will die.

COUNCILMAN PETERS Wait, we’re done discussing?

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Well, when someone makes a motion we have to act on that. Right now there’s a motion but there’s no second is there a second?

COUNCILMAN PETERS The motion was his?

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Yes. He made a motion to table. Mr. Mang just seconded it. We’ll enter into more discussion but we’re now discussing a motion to table. I assume you mean for two weeks until the next council session.

COUNCILMAN MANSON Yeah, discuss it at one committee meeting and bring it right back up.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER We now have a motion on the floor to table this for two weeks.

COUNCILMAN MANSON After what Mr. Stergios said tells me that I would like to have this clarified whether or not it means anything at all if we approve it or disapprove it.


COUNCILMAN PETERS Yeah, I agree with Mr. Manson I mean it’s kind of like don’t ask me for my opinion if you don’t want to listen to it or you don’t care. So why waste council’s time with something that we have no say so on which I consider a waste of time if we don’t have any say so. So that’s and I’m not arguing with the Ohio Revised Code or the ordinance but this is just a big dog and pony show. I mean lets don’t go through it anymore. So I’m all for tabling it and discussing it at the work session. I want to know why we’re going through this show. I mean you know if it means nothing.

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY I agree with Mr. Peters, I find it ironic that it becomes an issue with a person on one of these or several people one of these commissions and now all of a sudden you know now it’s not appropriate to vote on it. As long as I have been on council we’ve been voting on this and I find it ridiculous honestly that now because there’s an issue everybody’s going to search for a reason a loophole to get out of it. That’s shameful.

LAW DIRECTOR STERGIOS – I’m just telling you what the ordinance says. You guys do what you want but historically they always put it before council I don’t know why its one of those things everybody says we always did it that way. So…

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Is there any other question for the law director? We do have a motion on the floor we do have a second, Mr. Hersher?

COUNCILMAN HERSHER – Just to get the other side of things I think it would probably be appropriate to call the mayor forward.


MAYOR CICCHINELLI – I find it pretty ironic that depending on the issue certain members of council accuse the administration of not cooperating, not being courteous, not being a good team player. Some of these same people are now saying and criticizing the administration and specifically me for providing you with a list of volunteer citizens to serve on boards and commissions for the most part. Giving up their time and the reason we do that is to be courteous to the legislative authority. That’s the only reason. There is no sinister plan to embarrass or to waste people’s time. You know some folks need to understand what the separation of powers means at all levels of government including the local government. It’s interesting and other people before spouting off to the news media should get all the facts maybe. I have consistently tried to be a good team player and providing you this council and past councils with a total list of boards and commissions. It was because of the conversations and the opinions in the local newspaper that prompted the law director to really look at the law specifically. We knew all along that in most of these boards and commissions it didn’t need any council’s approval that’s not the point. The point is including you in the process and because of that courteous approach to this now we’re getting criticized for playing games and wasting your time. Folks you know some folks need to grow up a little bit this is ridiculous we’re only trying to be courteous to you that’s all. We have done this ever since I can remember as long as I have been Mayor and the previous administration did the same thing. It was a courteous approach to government just including you but because some of you are playing games of one or two of these appointments now all of a sudden it’s the administration that’s wasting your time.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Are you open for questions?


COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Are there any questions for the Mayor? Mrs. Catazaro-Perry?

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Well, I really think that should be reviewed because I do have some information from the Ohio Revised Code that says it does have to be with the consent of council. I’m not positive on it but that’s what it says…

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – May I ask her a question, Mr. President?

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Let’s let her make her comments here start taking notes if you want.

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY And I just I don’t understand why you come to council and ask us for approval when it’s not necessary. I mean that’s what you’re telling tonight if it’s not necessary but as long as I have been on council you’ve come to council for our approval and now tonight there’s an issue and it’s not necessary. I don’t understand that.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – Kathy, I didn’t come to council tonight saying that you could or could not approve them. The law director has said in his research because of him being prepared for these questions because of the afore mentioned news article he prepared himself and looked at the revised code. We…boards and commissions we looked into this previously with previous law directors and they all say the same thing. Now I don’t know what part of the revised code you’re looking at or who gave you that information but I would trust that our law director in his opinion on researching the law but its really insignificant if you think about it. We’re just doing it to show you to give you lists so you have them so if you want to know who’s on these boards and commissions or your constituents want to know who’s on these boards and commissions you have the people who serve. We wanted you to be again as a sort of a team player we wanted to include the legislative authority in the process. There’s nothing sinister about that, that’s being cooperative…

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY And agree with that and I think all council appreciates having the list but in the past we voted on approving that list. There’s an issue tonight and there’s some great concerns and that should be taken into account. Unfortunately, its not you’re saying tonight that for the most part and we’re going to clarify that in two weeks is that our opinion is not worthy of a vote. That’s what its saying.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – I didn’t say that Kathy you never heard me say your opinion aren’t worth…

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY That’s what our law director said that you don’t have to council’s approval. But in the past you’ve asked for it and…

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – That’s right, that’s because we’re cooperating with the legislative authority to include them. I don’t again I don’t understand the big deal here.

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Because there are several council people that have a concern that’s the big deal because there’s a person we don’t think is appropriate for a position. Because we don’t know that they’ll have the best interest of the residents of the city. That’s the concern.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – But you have to remember because of the separation of powers there are certain authority given to the legislative authority and certain authorities given to the executive authority. That’s what you have here, you have dialogue so I mean it’s like I we it’s my responsibility to make these appointments.

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY It is and in the past council’s approved that. I guess it’s not a big deal if we’re not supposed to approve it then. You know it’s not a big deal.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – Well, I think it is.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Let me jump in for a moment. First of all, the law director will research this for next week. I had the Clerk pull the minutes for our January meetings; January of ’07 we accepted the report with no vote, it was just included in city what do we call it here? Reports from city officials, last year January ’08 we did actually vote and we had an 8 to 1 vote. So again our record has been spotty on whether we have voted to accept or just accept it but we’ll I assume leave that up for our own law director.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – So a lot of time you’re saying that we just missed…

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER I’m just saying these last two years I had her check.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – You just listed them?

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER So you guys can go back if you have another questions, but basically the law director will check it out and let us know. I plan to go back and look at our other January minutes. Mrs. Catazaro-Perry, I’m sorry I interrupted you .

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Well, its just so funny that you know that everybody’s prepared for this question. Everybody’s prepared for this evening you know I just got this myself today I didn’t know anything about this and this date on here is January 7th. That’s why I think there’s somebody’s trying to pull the wool over somebody’s eyes here because I didn’t’ know there was problem until Friday when the newspaper wrote about it. You know so something’s not right something is not on the up and up you know why is everybody finding these answers out, why is our council president researching things before tonight. You know Perry saying he spent all afternoon working on it what’s being covered up?

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – Because he must have had conversations with members of council or and or read the paper. So…

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY You know why didn’t we get this sooner than if this is done January 7th…

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – You get it the same time you get it in January…

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER If I could mention I just the Clerk do that in the last three minutes I didn’t’ do any research at another time. I just had her go over right now and do that.

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY It just like somebody’s trying to get away with something. I don’t know.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – Excuse me, we’re not trying to do that at all. We’re trying to inform you…

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Alright, I think everybody’s made their points are there any other additional points Mrs. Catazaro-Perry?

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY No, I was even in the newspaper this isn’t my biggest concern but I just feel like something’s not right here, something’s not on the up and up. You know and I really did Mr. President feel that we voted on these all the times all the years I was on.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Like I said I just checked the last two years to see what we did one year we did one year we didn’t. So…

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY And so we’re lacking consistency also. I’m not sure why that is I mean who’s error is that?

COUNCILMAN PETERS I think Mr. Manson had something first. (Go ahead) Okay, Mr. Mayor, if you’re talking about me spouting off you can say my name I won’t cry, okay. I don’t consider it spouting off if the newspaper calls and asks me a question and I feel it’s a legitimate answer and I thought it was the right answer. I’m finding out it’s the wrong answer though I’m going to answer them. Okay, it was not to bash you or the administration or anybody else. I was legitimately saying everybody’s saying something is official in my book it wasn’t until it was approved by council to answer Kathy Catazaro-Perry’s question I called Perry Stergios on I think I talked to him maybe Sunday. I informed him of my intention of questioning a certain appointment. I’m not going to lie about it I’m not ashamed of it. My whole deal is don’t ask me if you don’t want an answer. Now and going back even into this year you know we changed when Mr. Bradley died we changed we added a member to the parks and rec. board and we voted on that appointment in council We voted on it, okay, so there’s another instance okay. If you don’t need us don’t ask us. As far as being polite I understand that okay I accept that I know that you try to keep us informed but there are several things involving the rec. department that we weren’t informed about. Such as the letter to the auditor I knew nothing about it and you know I’ve got to learn from it from the newspapers. Now I’m a member of council I should have been informed of that then they don’t catch you by surprise and say well what about the letter? What letter, oh the one that Mr. Luckring sent to the Mayor. You know I you know that’s a surprise to me. I don’t like surprises alright, I’m sorry. And you know I don’t like surprises and that’s my biggest gripe its not against you or anyone else in the administration I feel these are your appointments but don’t ask me for my opinion if you don’t want it. I mean its just you could be courteous hand these out to everybody and say here these are the appointments take it or leave it. I’ll shut my big mouth I don’t care. But don’t ask me to approve something if you don’t want my input or my output. That’s all I’m saying. You know nothing was aimed at you or the administration so I don’t know if your paranoid about that I don’t that’s your problem not mine. Okay, because I’m going to answer questions that are given to me. Sometimes I put my foot in my mouth, sometimes I say the wrong things. I’m not going to say that I’m not above that. But I don’t particularly like saying that I spouted off. Okay, I take offense to that. Okay, I don’t come here at council and say the mayor spouted off today about this and that I don’t say that. What you say I respect I think the same should be done towards council whether its at you or not at you. You know I think that’s why we are elected for our opinions. And if you don’t want our opinions number one don’t elect us and number two don’t ask for it. That’s just where I stand.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – Well, I do want your opinions that’s why I gave you the boards and commissions to…

COUNCILMAN PETERS And in all fairness Mr. Mayor, I walked in 7:27pm like I always do I don’t have time to go through this right now. I’m not saying there’s a person on here I disagree with its not up to me to decide that.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – But its not the administration’s responsibility to circulate those. They go out with the agendas. If you don’t pick up the agendas that not…

COUNCILMAN PETERS Okay, we can ask every member of council how many got these with their agendas. I’m going to say nobody.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – That’s why January 7th is on it. Mary Ann typed those way ahead of time so we can get them to council. But I’m not going to fault anyone, I’m just saying…they aren’t surprises we tried to the process.

COUNCILMAN PETERS What the surprise is you’re telling me that you don’t need my approval. That’s a surprise to me.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – I didn’t tell you that.

COUNCILMAN PETERS Well, the law director I mean that’s a surprise to me. I’m sorry because you know that means I did put my foot in my mouth. Well, this has to be approved by council nothing’s official who’s the dummy now? I am because I didn’t go research the Ohio Revised Code or our city ordinance. Again, I’m guilty but…

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – Wait a minute Donnie maybe the person that prompted the reckless article in the newspaper over the weekend is the one that didn’t sort of jump the gun here and didn’t get all the facts. Maybe the finger is being pointed to wrong people.

COUNCILMAN PETERS Personally. I don’t like finger pointing period. But you know that if you have a problem with me you say my name I can take it I’m a big boy I can take it. I won’t even get mad or cuss I won’t I mean I turned over a new leaf. But I’m just saying that I its just beyond me why they would ask us to vote on it and it really doesn’t really matter one way or the other. I think that’s really quite stupid. Now I’m sorry and correction to Mr. Gamber as long as I’ve been on council I don’t’ remember 2007 you know I have a hard time remembering yesterday. But you know I thought we did this every year. I really did every year that I’ve been on council I thought we approved and did all this.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – I apologize for saying you spouted off.

COUNCILMAN PETERS That’s fine I don’t have a problem really I don’t’ have a problem. I’m not one to talk about somebody saying something like that. But you know I vividly remember Mr. Slagle voting no last year keep pointing him out voting no because he didn’t like one appointment. I was kind of upset with Mr. Slagle because I really like that appointment but you know that’s why I wanted to separate them out. That was my only reason for doing that. But again if we don’t have to do this then lets don’t do it or lets make it mandatory we do it. I don’t care its up to this body not me.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER We’ll have that answer next Monday from the law director.

COUNCILMAN PETERS That’s all I have to say.


COUNCILMAN MANSON Yes, that’s the reason I asked to table it is to find out how we are supposed to handle this. I thought we voted on it every year but obviously I was wrong on that too. So I’d just like to clear it up and all the more reason why we should wait.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER I had the Clerk pull the minutes from ’06 and ’05 we did vote to accept it both those years. So the last four we’ve done it three and in ’07 we did not. Mr. Maier, you had your hand up?

COUNCILMAN MAIER Yes, Mr. Mayor, I got a call from the newspaper and sometimes I put my foot in my mouth but I did not prompt a reckless article in the newspaper. I didn’t make the call, they called me. Like Donnie sometimes I do put my foot in my mouth and there’s nothing wrong with your appointment on either way. Okay, both gentlemen are fine gentlemen I just had some concerns when it was explained to me by the reporter. I hadn’t seen the thing. So I apologize if I offended you or the people who were involved with the appointment.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – Well, I called it a reckless article but I didn’t say you were the reckless individual.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Mr. Townsend, you had your hand up?

COUNCILMAN TOWNSEND Well, most of them asked I sit on the parks and rec. representative from council and I don’t know if this question is appropriate. But I guess it just appeared to me that Mr. Luckring was doing a pretty good job and like I stated I don’t know if this is an appropriate question Mr. Mayor you can tell me you’re not going to answer it jump in the lake whatever. I don’t put my foot in my mouth that much but why wasn’t Mr. Luckring reappointed?

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – As I explained to Matt basically we wanted to go in a different direction. It’s as simple as that. The three appointments actually all of our boards and commissions are important to us for the governmental function to continue to do what its supposed to do. So we take these appointments very seriously especially a department like that with the millions of dollars that we have available. So we just felt that at this particular time we wanted to move in a different direction. The three members we know are administrative or executive appointments but we also want the input of council. You all know that these all these boards and commissions come up for renewal every year. So if there’s issues you need to let us or tell us. But we want to include you and now we’re getting criticized as far as including. The other specific reason I expect my board and commission members to have dialogue with me particular but with the administration. If that doesn’t occur then I feel compelled to make changes and sometimes we do make changes. Mr. Luckring served well for four years I just felt that I wanted to go in a different direction. I don’t’ want to be redundant and its really not casting an doubt on Mr. Luckring’s abilities. It’s just that certain things happen that we did not agree to and there has not been a lot of discussions with Mr. Luckring. I think that’s a two way street yes, but I think it’s a responsibility of any appointee of the administration to at least have discussions with the administration at various times. Of all the issues we’ve had in that department you’d think there would be some dialogue. That’s what it really boiled down to I just wanted to go in a different direction and that’s what I told Matt and to me it really wasn’t a big deal. But evidentially to some people it was a big deal.


COUNCILMAN MANSON Yes, first of all I want to make it perfectly clear since we are talking about Mr. Pribich was a very valuable member of that committee when he was appointed by the school and I was disappointed to see him going off at the time. But for me there’s even more than the issue of your appointments there were some questions raised by the rec. board that I would like to get a little deeper into and get some answers on it. So I think these things kind of go hand in hand.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – You mean as far as authority?

COUNCILMAN MANSON As far as how that money is handled maybe how that insurance check should have been handled. If they didn’t accept Mr. Stergios’ opinion they have the right to go to the next level I feel or we have the right to go to the next level and find out. You know if it was handled right. That’s what I think the whole thing kind of lumps together for me its not your appointments. It’s the whole issue there and it just happens to be the appointment triggered it.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – Well, I think you have to look at also if you look at the whole series of events and I understand what you’re saying here. Why I called the article reckless if you bring up about the $495,000.00 if that was so important for the insurance money from the fire at the chapel. Nowhere in the article did it say over $1.2 million dollars that the city’s general fund has loaned to the parks and rec. department since the inception of this new recreation board. There’s been $1.2 million dollars spent from general fund capital improvement monies and economic development fund monies for various parks and rec. activities. Nowhere in that article did I see that the concentration was in someone’s haste to try to make political hay for whatever this is what I’m talking about. Someone or some individuals are being reckless and trying to get people embarrassed and not getting all the facts. When you write a story like that you better have all the facts and all the facts weren’t presented in that article. But believe me I’ll have my say too at the proper time about the facts. But no one talks about the $1.2 million dollars we loaned that department. They’re only talking about the $495,000.00 which by the way before Jayne and Frank as the article said or the auditor and I think it said Frank Cicchinelli and Jayne Ferrero put that money in there the law director ruled on it that it can be placed anywhere. Plus if you really look at the Ohio Revised Code again who’s being reckless on this kind of article if you look at the Ohio Revised Code do you realize that any sale when you sell property park property the Ohio Revised Code says the money goes into the city’s general fund. So no one is being reckless folks at all except for somebody’s that prompting these articles. In closing this discussion the main problem here with the parks and rec. board is one member of that board. Moe Rickett, who is bound and determined to you serve all the authority from the elected officials. You can’t do that when this board was created it was created legally through the Ohio Revised Code. We are a statutory city and there are limitations the elected officials and actually city council has final say on any issue the concerning any department in this city. That’s the way it should be because you folks are the dually elected members of this council from the citizens of Massillon. I don’t think we want it any other way so look at the revised code and that’s what tells you how it should be set up. But the reckless comment was because as Paul Harvey says “now for the rest of the story”.

COUNCILMAN SLAGLE It strikes me that the first issue is we just didn’t get this and its dated January 7th and that might not be the mayor’s fault and it might be someone else’s fault and its easily remedied by putting it off so we can get at the work session so we see it in advanced. I know that was my problem last year and I just didn’t see it in advanced it was given there, there was a vote on it I wasn’t going to do it when I hadn’t seen it in advanced. The second issue I think is quite concerning to me is to find out in fact the parks and rec. department three appointments from the city do not apparently need council’s approval based on our city statute which I think should be changed. Because the parks and rec. department is unlike most ever other department I’m aware of in the city because they handled when all said is done more than $4,000,000.00 worth taxpayers dollars whether it be the money coming in from the parks and rec. levy or the money coming in from the golf course or the money coming in from the various fees that are brought in by the parks and rec. department over at the rec. center or in other arenas which they are involved. It strikes me that when that type of board is handling that kind of money with those kinds of decisions and we are all busy and we have to account sometimes what those boards are telling us. We have to be comfortable with those people on those boards that are doing the things that are best for the City of Massillon do not have any personal agendas on what may have happened historically fourteen years ago when the parks and rec. first was passed. So I think we need to modify or change that piece of legislation and its no reflection on the mayor on that because he’s brought it to us for a vote and in that regards so he obviously feels that an important thing for us to be look at too. But a later mayor may not have that same opinion. So I think for that particular board its certainly a good idea to follow the state statute on it with the city statute that the mayor appoints and we can give our approval to that appointment. I think Frank has shown he’s willing to accept that on that board because he has done it in the past. So I think we ought to put this aside get it to the work session so we can discuss it there.

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY The last thing I’d like to say is I don’t know anything about this letter. I’ve not seen it someone’s talking about a letter that Mr. Luckring wrote I’ve not seen it I would like a copy of it. I mean and I just think council should be brought in if there was an issue we should have been brought in at least shared so if we do get questions I know nothing about a letter from Mr. Luckring at all. So I would like to at least…

AUDITOR FERRERO – The chairman of the committee should know what’s going on in the parks department and he would know that and be able to share that with council. I would think that committee chairman…

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Mrs. Ferrero, I appreciate your input but lets hold off for just a moment.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Let’s not start spouting off. You have the floor Mrs. Catazaro-Perry.

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY I’m just saying that you know that’s part of communicating is to make council aware of issues so that if there are questions that we receive the newspaper, phone call or something that we are prepared to answer the question. If they would have Matt or whoever made the call I would not have known anything about that.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – The letter just to clear the air the letter that Mr. Peters brought up certainly had nothing to do with Tony. What it was a letter signed by Joe Luckring as a member of the parks and rec. board requesting Mrs. Ferrero to deposit the $495,000.00 that was received by the city for the chapel fire in parks and rec. funds. That’s what the letter that they’re referring to.

AUDITOR FERRERO – I have the letter I can get a copy of the letter for anyone

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – It’s public information its no big deal.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Alright, that’s a rhetorical question don’t raise your hand but the minutes for the rec. board meetings are available to anyone. I get them I didn’t see the letter but back in the November meeting when they discussed it there was a three or four pages talking about this issue, the letters that were being sent to the auditor, to the mayor, to the law director, council never got a copy of it. They didn’t say at the bottom copy Tony maybe they did I don’t know but didn’t copy council. But the minutes were available anybody on council can get any of these minutes any time. I’ve had them for a long time. But it never came up in council meeting so I just figured this all being handled. The second thing is Moe Rickett and I were working together with a very large community committee back in 1995 putting together this rec. levy none of us were in public office and certainly didn’t expect to be. We looked in the Ohio Revised Code I believe it’s chapter 7 that discusses municipalities and there are about three or four or five formulas for how to set up a joint recreation board. I’ll be very honest with you we chose the one that had the least influence by elected officials. Because as citizens we were very distrustful of politicians getting hold of that board and doing whatever they would. So we chose the formula that was a joint board between the school board and the city and the board has almost complete autonomy over administrative decisions but every financial decision in the city comes through council. We approve their budget, we approve what they spend in that budget and if there’s extra things over and above that they have to come to council. I appreciate Moe and I know exactly where Moe Rickett is coming from and I consider him a friend of mine he’s been on that board since day one. He also put two hard years in as chairman of the committee and if there’s anybody that knows how this should work its Moe. I think right now he’s just extremely frustrated over a number of issues. That’s all I can say but I know we did try to keep elected officials fingers off as much as we could but by state law council does have the authority and the fiduciary responsibility oversee what they do. Getting back to the appointments who knows.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – Mr. President, if I may in all due respect you need to go back and revisit the revised code because neither you nor Mr. Rickett are attorneys. So you may had intentions of coming up with a type of board that had extreme powers but that’s not what we ended up. The revised code specifies it this is not a joint recreation district this is a park and rec. board specifically a recreation board but we call it the parks and rec. board there is no district anymore. That was eliminated when the folks voted for the income tax increase to fund the new parks and rec. department. So that prior to that if you really want to know the history we had a park board and we had a recreation board. The park board was exclusively funded by the city okay, using city dollars the rec. board which existed five members, three appointed by me, two appointed by the Massillon City School Board they got some of their funding most of their funding from a small real estate tax I think it was a half mill or whatever it was. When the new board came together and was formed and the parks and rec. department was going to be shaped into what exists today at that time the joint recreation district did exist because it says two governmental entities city school district and City of Massillon. That joint district actually was eliminated so the intent may have been to not have the elected officials have that much input but the reality of the situation and this has caused problems for the last 15 years or whatever because it appears that people are on a power trip and they aren’t. I think that in our form of government elected officials should have the final say. That’s why I think the revised code says that because the citizens have direct link to those elected officials. But you can go back and you can check I think it will be interesting to see what Perry comes up with in his final analysis. But…

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER I think I’m agreeing with you entirely the elected officials do have final say.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – So its more like an advisory board if you want a term.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Okay, who else would like to make comments put your hands up. Okay, Mr. Townsend and then we’ll hear from the law director.

COUNCILMAN TOWNSEND I just would like to make a comment to what Jayne has stated. When I received the letter it was long after the fact. It was sent on an email account that is used by my two fifteen years and I remember making a call to Mary Beth awhile back requesting that they do not use account because I do not check it. All city business are checked on city email account so when I discovered it not long after Matt called me so its been out there quite some time. The problem or issue was addressed so me presenting that letter to council would have just I guess in my opinion just to stir things up because the issue was addressed. So that’s you know to just let Jayne know so it was long after the fact the issue was addressed and if I would have presented that when I discovered it what was the purpose to do that the issue was addressed. So…

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Mr. Peters, you have one final comment?

COUNCILMAN PETERS Yes, I’m not disagreeing with either one of you because I honestly don’t know. Okay, but I think this is something I’m getting a little bit tired reading about it myself. You know what Moe Rickett says what Joe Luckring says what Frank Cicchinelli says you know why can’t we really sit down and decide who’s got the say so and who doesn’t have the say so, so the rec. board doesn’t think they’re as powerful as they are or vise versa. I mean why can’t that be done?

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – I don’t think all members of the rec. board feel the same way as Mr. Rickett feels.

COUNCILMAN PETERS Well, I disagree with you, Mr. Mayor, because maybe they talk out of both sides of their mouths. I don’t know because I’m hearing a different story from four out of five rec. board members then you’re hearing. Okay, this is the reason I even questioned what is going on because I’ve talked to all of all since Friday all but one. Okay, and I don’t know that person’s opinion but I mean everyone I’ve talked to is telling me there’s big surprises coming forth you know as soon as we get the Ohio Attorney General involved and blah, blah, blah I’m just telling you what I hear. I’m not making a secret out of any of this because I really don’t I want to know, I want to know what authority the park board has or the park and rec. board has and what authority they don’t. How much input and output they have I want to know that because I’m frankly tired and I’m no different than anyone else sitting here we’re all tired of listening you know just like when they came day and demanded that we take back the Legends. Well, who I mean can they demand that or can they suggest that? I want to know I want to know as a council person who I am I listening to here. If you tell me I have to listen to you everything in the park and rec. board I’ll do so. But if I have to listen to them I guess I’m really confused. I don’t know if everybody here is honest they will tell me the same thing. I just don’t understand you know and maybe you can explain that.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – One of the things that I always try to do before I appoint someone to a board we talk. My appointees and I had at least one meeting and or discussion ahead of time. It is explained to them where their authorities lie it’s the Ohio Revised Code. Believe me I’m not an attorney but I think I’ve been around here a long time I think you’ll find out that city council has the final say.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Alright, thank you. I did have a request from our law director to come up again.

LAW DIRECTOR STERGIOS – Not to prolong this any longer but I would ask that Mary Beth forward to all council members email, fax whatever everybody’s going to get Ordinance No. 201 – 1995 which was then codified in our book which everybody I think has a book or access to a book over the internet. In section 163.02 in review of that will tell all of you that it does not require council approval for the mayor’s appointments. That if different than what the revised code says no doubt about it but that’s what was passed in 1995 before any of us were here. I talked with it with Larry today if you guys want to change it that’s up to you but that’s what it says now. I can tell you already that’s what my opinion is going to say on Monday, but and I rushed around all afternoon to put it together you only have so much time in a day. So that’s the way it stands and Donnie’s question is in the process of being answered because Moe Rickett sent me the email that the newspaper was talking about with all these questions and we’re working on that. I just go that last Monday so but I can almost well never mind.

COUNCILMAN PETERS I have a question for you, Perry. I don’t know I’m not a lawyer okay, I mean does like our ordinance they have I mean they supersede the Ohio Revised Code how does that work?

LAW DIRECTOR STERGIOS – Not in all cases and that was the confusing or the harder issue to figure out today but in general the research says an ordinance like this can override the revised code. Because its not an exercise of police power is the main branch that isn’t met. In the cases that we found and the research that we did today basically says that with this type of an ordinance it can override the revised code. Because it only affects people in Massillon doesn’t affect Toledo or you know what I mean. We can choose to treat it differently and it only applies only on a local level and it’s not an exercise of police power. That was the more difficult issue than reading this thing to see what it says. Because I had the same question. So…

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Alright, thank you very much. We’ll get our answer next Monday.

COUNCILMAN MAIER Yeah, I’d like to call for a question on the motion on the floor.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER We certainly do have a motion out there and the question has been called. We need a motion to we have a motion to table so please call the roll for that. We had a second Mr. Manson made the motion, Mr. Mang seconded it.

Roll call vote of 9 yes to table the Mayor’s Board of Commissions until February 2, 2009.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Mr. Mayor, may I call you back up here please for a moment. Do we have something in writing that we’re voting on do we have any a letter an appointment or anything? (Yes) Alright, can you please explain to council why Mr. Bryan needs a separate vote?

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – When the hospital when Doctor’s and MCH merged and they formed a new board of course it goes back to the deed the restrictions we won’t get into all that. But they have a board the Affinity Medical Center Board we have two members city during the negotiation period they gave us two members that sit sort of a like an exefficio capacity they’re non voting. But they can go to all meetings and they do go to all meetings. When the ordinance was passed concerning the settlement the council passed an ordinance that says that I have the authority I was the appointing authority but it needed the approval of council.


COUNCILMAN PETERS I have one question. Who is he replacing because…

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – That’s a good question Tim Bryan will be replacing Tom Seesan who was one of my appointees but he has been moved up to the actual voting board so the board is moving him up.

COUNCILMAN PETERS So Tom is still on the board basically, okay.

MAYOR CICCHINELLI – And Marva Dodson is my other appointee and she of course stays the same.

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY I just have a comment you know I think it the Affinity Medical Center needs approval from city council I think the board of commissions would also require approval. It just goes to show you that the board there and the Pocock Deed and all that says that they count on council for their opinion and think its warranted in all the approvals of the board of commissions as well.

COUNCILMAN MANG moved to accept the Mayor’s appointment of Tim Bryan, seconded by Councilman Slagle.

Roll call vote of 9 yes to accept the appointment of Tim Bryan to the Affinity Medical Center Board.



COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Committee meetings will be next Monday the 26th at 5:30pm.





Amending Section 1151.02 of the Massillon Code of 1985 rezoning a certain tract of land from RM-1 Multiple Family Residential to P-1 Vehicular Parking.

COUNCILMAN MANG At the last council meeting council became aware of some health issues that were presented by Mr. Dorvich. His concerns up until that point had not been known or discussed to any of the members of council. The gentleman expressed concerns about his wife health even to the extent of bring us medicine, etc here. At that point after more discussion it was decided that we would table this piece of legislation and see if Superior Credit Union who is requesting this rezoning might work with the homeowner and the possibility maybe of buying his home or working out something that would alleviate the pressure that would put his wife in under with the medical condition that she has. At our work session Mr. Roseman came to the work session and presented a letter to council that was directed directly to the property owner at which time the outline of what they were willing to do. They also indicated that they had looked at purchasing the property but the property of which the owner owns differs his price differs considerable from what the value has been determined by the county and by surrounding parties. So what we have before us tonight is a letter that was directed to individual stating that they would give them housing at the Hampton Inn for ten days I believe and that they would also give them a dinner coupon for $20.00 at Kosmo’s for each of those nights. So that is where we are and Kathy had requested that we table it and I think a number of other members felt the same way until we try to figure out what was going on. But I don’t the individual as far as I know is not here this evening Mr. Roseman is here. I’ll open it up to members of council as to what you would like to see.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Is there any discussion any questions? Mr. Manson?

COUNCILMAN MANSON The only discussion I have is I think we should just go ahead and approve the request for the rezoning. The other part of that we have no control over they made an offer and they want to accept it fine but I’m just concerned with handling the zoning. I think we should just move it for vote.

COUNCILMAN SLAGLE I think we should move ahead and vote on it as well. We’ve discussed it pretty in depth I know that Councilwoman Catazaro-Perry is in favor of this rezoning. Normally in the past I’ve voted in that regard if the council person was willing to accept that rezoning then I as a council at large should accept that council person’s opinion on it. So but having said that this time we did have a vote on the second one and I’m still influenced by the vote that the citizens of Massillon said further up the road and people say well, that’s different because you know they wanted to rezone large quantity. But if I were the homeowner living next to a house that zoned resident and then someone comes in to build a business two lots down which is commercial and yet west of that is more commercial property I’d be upset too if somebody wanted to rezone my property the property next door from residential to a parking lot. So I’m going to vote no just for that purpose. I just thought you should know.

COUNCILMAN PETERS I agree with Councilman Manson that we should go forward and vote for this change the contractor has gone above and beyond what most contractors would do. Mr. Townsend even was concerned about that maybe he’s doing too much. But you know the ultimate thing is if we vote no Mr. Roseman can tear down that house tomorrow he owns the property he can tear it down he doesn’t need any permits to tear it down I mean as far as you know as approval from us. So I mean he’s being more than fair to the property owner and he’s offering them things that he really doesn’t even have to because he can very well do that. So I think you know being that there’s just going to be a parking lot I don’t have a problem with rezoning anything on Lincoln Way. I’m sorry you guys all know that’s how I feel. So I’m going to be voting yes.

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY I think we did have great dialogue between the two entities Mr. Roseman and Mr. Dorvich. I think that council took into account the resident’s illness and gave them time to work things out. Ultimately, you know a credit union is going in there and there’s no better neighbor than a credit union. We need businesses in Massillon and I think that they are going above and beyond what they should be doing. They’ve offered the gentleman and his wife to stay at the Hampton Inn which is a beautiful place and they’ve even offered food vouchers for them for Kosmo’s. They’re going to put up some I think trees to help block that area from what I understand when I met with Mr. Roseman. So I think they are doing everything that they can do but the area that is in question you know is going to be a parking lot its still going to be away from the building. So what I’m saying is there’s still space in between the home and the actual credit union. I think it’s a good think for Massillon. You know we have to make tough decisions at times but we also have to move forward and progress our city. I think this is one of those areas that we’re moving forward. So I am voting yes tonight I am in favor of the parking lot rezoning.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Mr. Mang, your motion, please?

COUNCILMAN MANG I think we might advise council that to overturn the planning commission that we need seven votes. So…the planning commission voted to approve this if council would so desire to change that we would need seven votes to change it. We only need a majority of council to agree.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER The motion or the ordinance is written in a positive manner to uphold the decision of the planning commission. So a yes vote means that it would be rezoned parking and a no vote means it would not be. Mr. Mang?

COUNCILMAN MANG I see Mr. Roseman has his hand up.

SEAN ROSEMAN – 1211 3rd Street, Massillon. I’ll be quick about it. Mr. Dorvich is not here tonight last I talked to Mr. Dorvich they did turn down the stay at the Hampton and the meal ticket. We did work out some other things that we will be doing to the property next door per his request to make him and wife happy. That is done in writing he does have a copy of the letter. I can’t talk for the man but I would imagine that’s why he’s not here tonight. We feel as though that we do have him taken care of the way he wishes to be taken care of. So that’s it.


COUNCILMAN MANG Now if you’ve ever been confused you’re going to be totally confused now. It’s kind of like what you get in the middle of.

COUNCILMAN MANG moved for passage of Ordinance No. 147 – 2008, seconded by Councilman McCune.

Roll call vote of 9 yes for passage.





COUNCILMAN MANSON Yes, Monday, at committee I intend to have some more dialogue on finance and the budget. The auditor I’m sure will be there and we’ll have some things to talk about I want to get with the mayor he’s been off sick I broke my leg we haven’t been communicating too much here. But I know he likes to attend the council meetings and he says the safety service director to the committee meetings but maybe I can persuade him to come Monday night.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Is this during the meeting or before?

COUNCILMAN MANSON Well, I’m going to talk to Mr. Mang about that and see whether he thinks I’m going to get his opinion on that. Then I will if we decide to go ahead of the regular meeting I will get an email out to everybody Friday no later than Friday.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Is there anyone else who like to bring up any new or miscellaneous.

COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY I prefer a phone call again if you would please call my cell phone. Thank you.

COUNCILMAN PETERS As the chairman of Streets and Highways and in an effort to keep council informed. I got a thing here directed to the mayor from our streets and highways superintendent. The subject is as of today we have used 4,000 tons of salt at a cost of $163,800.00 compared to all of 2008 at 6,800 tons at a cost of $277,000.00. These figures are of course does not include any labor costs. What he’s asking is if the weather continues we may want to stop salting the flat side streets and only plow when necessary. So I just want to council to aware that we’re getting close on this and if the weather doesn’t cooperate we might have to make some alternative decisions. So that’s all I have.

COUNCILMAN MANSON Yes, just a comment on the Tremont Viaduct. I don’t know if anybody noticed but Beaver moved their construction trailer in and yesterday they were down there I believe wiring the trailer in.

COUNCILMAN PETERS I set that up as a matter of fact.

COUNCILMAN MANSON Don’t break your elbow patting yourself on the back.

COUNCILMAN PETERS Ask the mayor he knows he’s seen my email.

COUNCILMAN MANSON But anyhow I saw them yesterday they were connecting the trailers up.



COUNCILMAN TOWNSEND – I move that we adjourn, seconded by all.




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